Recently when I was invited overseas to do a tour and while in negotiations with the hosts, this phrase occurred to me, “it should hurt a little…”. It was in reference to the whole process of negotiation.
Whenever you’re in the process of negotiation, there is ALWAYS give and take.
When I was younger, omigosh, I had no idea how to negotiate. I’m sure there were times when I came across as way too desperate. And I wonder if that’s not the case with most people.
Negotiation is a form of its less respected cousin haggling. You think of haggling when you’re on a street market in Pakistan or Mexico, you don’t think haggling has any place in ‘modern respected’ society.
Nonsense!
Especially in the arts field, haggling is alive and well!
And it occurs to me that the end result of any negotiation is that ‘it should hurt a little’, on BOTH sides!
If one side is sitting pretty and completely contented–then you can bet that someone’s getting played.
It is NOT a good idea for ANYONE to get played, not even when the deal is to your advantage!
Know why?
Because people talk!
If someone has negotiated themselves a cream puff deal and then don’t live up to the hype, the people who paid the terms will do so grudgingly!
And they will grumble.
And in the long term it will bite you in the behind.
Because when organizations are planning events and your name comes up, because of that whole six degrees of separation thing–someone’s bound to know that establishment that feels had, and they will say, ‘she’s not worth the price’.
Honestly there’ve been times when I’ve preferred receiving a lower price for a presentation because it means I can trot out something tried and true and not have to develop something specific for that occasion and risk not living up to the hype.
That’s when you’ve gotten to the point where you, yourself, value your own time and energy.
On the other hand, if you play it too easy, you’ll also get bitten in the behind. Because not charging enough shows that you don’t respect your work and no matter how good you are, you will be dismissed.
There’s a really good line in that Adam Sandler movie Spanglish when Flor is asked what she wants to get paid. First she quotes an exhorbitant amount, then she quotes something reasonable–even though it’s way more than she would have been willing to work for.
You don’t want to close the door to opportunities, but at the same time, you don’t want to feel used after you’ve done a gig.
In terms of international presentations the rules are very different!
If you’re going to the U.S. if you don’t charge a minimum of $1000 per day, they’ll think you’re worthless. Not sure if that’s changed recently, what with the recession and all, but I know it’s been true for a while. Many authors charge way more! My bench mark is $300 for an hour presentation. That’s a fee where ‘it hurts a little’ but I still feel good. (By the way, for a keynote charge way more!)
You can’t get away with that in other countries.
And there you have to weigh how much you want to do the gig, what it will mean in terms of international exposure, do you have books to promote in that language, what kind of experience will it give you and…how good will it look on your resume–before you decide to commit or not.
Even then, when they offer you terms…always ask for something more.
It should ‘hurt’ them a little too. They should want you enough to be willing to give out a little extra–and that doesn’t necessarily mean money, but just better terms.
In the end, you want to be in a position where you’re GLAD you did the gig, it made you GROW as an artist and you don’t feel bitter or used in any way.
And even if you decided to be charitable and you gave your time for free, you know for sure that they valued your services.
That’s why I say even to Muslim schools–pay what you can.
5 Responses
Patricia Tilton
13|Dec|2011 1Sure am learning a lot from all of your experiences. This post was very interesting. I’m not good at haggling. When I reach this stage, I know who to go to for advice.
Laughed, my husband is a retired pastor, and when he does interims at other churches, he’s lucky to get $100. He doesn’t get gas, nor does it include the hours of work on a sermon. But, you are right some times you do things to put yourself out — and act out of service when someone can’t afford you. It may make you feel the best when you’re done and see those smiling faces.
Pat
Rukhsana Khan
13|Dec|2011 2Hi Pat,
I was wondering if I was coming across as not driving a hard enough bargain.
I do think people can price themselves out of good opportunities, and only you can decide what you’re willing to work for.
I think most religious stuff tends to be done on the cheap. In Islam we have a phrase that encapsulates it perfectly: fee sabee lillah, which loosely translates to ‘for the sake of God’.
To me that’s just giving back.
I do remember a gig I agreed to way at the beginning. It was in a town north of Toronto called Aurora, and ever since then I’ve always been prejudiced against Aurora.
Oh, I’ve been back there and had wonderful experiences, but this one school contacted me back when I was working for an Ontario Arts Coucil program called Artists in the Schools. It was a subsidized program and most of the artists didn’t have any books published. The school said they couldn’t afford the additional fee that I charged. I asked them if they were ‘needy’ and someone said yes. I get there and it’s the fanciest school I’d seen in a long time!
I told them that I’d only agreed to the reduced price under the assumption that they were needy. They said that they’d used up their extracurricular budget and couldn’t afford any more.
The school year was almost over and under the terms of the grant, I’d have to give back the subsidy if I didn’t do the program and it was too late to find another school. Oh but I HATED it!
I felt SO used!
But I still did my best presentations for the kids. I figured it wasn’t their fault that the PTA were a bunch of tightwads!
At one point the librarian chirped, “Oh maybe we could have you come back at some point!”
I just gave her a look and said, “If I do come back you guys will pay a LOT more!”
Never heard from them again and good riddance!
I visit so many schools and you can always tell the atmosphere of a school by the way the office and staff room feel! This was a school where the principal lived in fear of the parent council.
And even though the parent council included people who were way upper middle class, they were the cheapest bunch I’ve ever seen.
Contrast that with the school I went to his morning full of real needy kids, where there was a nutrition program and the principal herself had contributed to my fee in order for the kids to get to see me.
I eventually dropped the Artists in Education program after that. It was a pain in the neck always applying for it and then finding schools.
Had another really horrible experience through it too. With the grant I had to do one of the stints outside of the Toronto area. Looking back the fees were an absolute bargain for schools! They had me (and other artists) come into the school, work with the kids creatively for five days, and all the school had to cough up was $300!
I offered one of the grants to my old alma mater in the town of Dundas. The principal turned me down. He said, (and these were his words exactly), “We don’t need that multicultural stuff here.”
What I realized is that because of the cheap price people thought that they were ‘getting what they paid for’.
But all that was necessary so that now I’m not shy in terms of asking for what I think my services are worth.
All the best,
Rukhsana
Patricia Tilton
17|Dec|2011 3Likee your last comment, “because of the cheap price people thought that they were getting what they paid for.” And, the principal didn’t realize was that he was turning away a master story teller and a gem. His students suffered his indignation — and perhaps a little prejudice. Sounds like what I hear in some churches who are tied to deeply to their roots and how things should be — don’t have time for them!
You have developed a lot of self-confidence and self-worth. I’m glad you’re not shy and know what your presentations are worth.
Warmly,
Pat
Rukhsana Khan
18|Dec|2011 4Hi Pat,
Knowing what my presentations are worth has come through experience.
It’s really helped to watch a LOT of other authors present, then compare your own to what they’re doing.
I’ve sat in a LOT of very pretensious presentations from top list authors who basically ruminated about themselves and gave very little information on their process.
I decided I DON’T want to be like that!
All the best,
Rukhsana
patientdreamer
17|Dec|2011 5Wow! I guess we must all come across this step at some stage.
Sorry I haven’t been commenting. Often pop in to view your posts and dash off again. So much to see and do in this crazy time of year. But I always find, like Pat, your blog posts very interesting. I love learning from you and getting your point of view. Sorry to hear you have had some unfortunate experiences.
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